12.5.24 | Claim Your Value | Negotiation Strategies for Women in the Workplace

Genevieve Flores	All right, everybody, welcome to claim your value negotiation strategies for women in the workplace. I'm Genevieve Flores. I'm your program manager. Thank you all for joining us tonight. I will be handing the mic over to Holly Smithson, Athena's president and CEO.
Holly Smithson	Thank you very much, Genevieve. And, I'm really excited, to be here tonight with all of you and the fact that you all registered and made this a priority. On your Thursday evening between the Thanksgiving holidays and the December holidays, says a lot about all of you. It says that you're ready to tackle 2025 with grand intention.
Holly Smithson	It says that you want to master the ability to navigate your worth, navigate, on your conditions, and do it in a way that is professional and, and most effective. So, just want to salute all of you for showing up and making yourself a priority. That always endears me to the people, across the Athena community.
Holly Smithson	I will, I will just say I, I just want to add, you know, one of the things that we pride ourselves, here at Athena is, is the ability to create a safe space and really talk about, issues that are happening, against women, for women, across women in the workplace, and do so where other companies or other sort of organizations may shy away from those difficult conversations.
Holly Smithson	But that's that's not where you are. And, and so I just want to kind of set the table for today's discussion and recognize that there's a lot of, unsettling, in our community with the new administration and the pledges and the promises, to, eviscerate, a lot of the women's progress that we've made to women's rights, civil rights.
Holly Smithson	And so we just want to hold space and recognize that there's a lot of uncertainty that is waiting for us, and the new administration, but it doesn't matter who is out there. It does not matter what we have in here, which is the power of the community. And so I just I just want to honor all of you that recognize that, and remind you that we're not going anywhere.
Holly Smithson	Athena has been serving as the the voice of women in Stem for 26 years, and we are not going anywhere. So I'm just really excited to just to have all of you join. And with that, I want to introduce our keynote. And Christina Hepburn, is really a household name, across the Athena community. She has been, before, our community on several occasions to talk about this very topic.
Holly Smithson	So we're excited to have her back by popular demand. And, and what's really cool about Christina is she brings a really powerful and unique perspective, having worked for, you know, fortune 500, fortune 100 companies spanning from Apple one, Google into it, Viasat, Illumina, and of course as the co-founder at recruiter method. So suffice it to say, this woman has got a lot of ammunition to give all of us.
Holly Smithson	And I don't know about y'all, but I'm ready. So with that, I just want to hand the mic over to my friend and compadre, Christina, and take it away.
Christina Hepburn	Thank you. Thank you guys all for having me here. I'm so grateful. Holly and Genevieve and Christina and Patricia, you all helped me prep for this call. You are having me here. I'm honored. So I just want to take a moment to say thank you as well. And I'll share my screen so we can get started. Also, I saw someone worked for Apple one as well.
Christina Hepburn	I love that that was my first job out of college, so I get it. Okay, so let's jump right in to our slideshow. There is me and my partner Ashley at the recruiter Method, and I am going to be guiding you today to claim your value. So first, a little bit about me. Holly kind of explained where it worked before.
Christina Hepburn	So I am a former recruiter turned co-founder and career strategist at the Recruiter Method I have hired for companies like Google, Illumina, Intuit, Viasat, a lot of local San Diego places. And I think she did over a thousand job offers for candidates when I worked for these companies today, I now give clients negotiation strategies and knowledge to help them achieve more.
Christina Hepburn	And in 2024, I actually have now negotiated $1 million in earnings for the clients I've worked with that they otherwise would have left on the table. So I just did that math last week. I was pretty proud of myself for that. So it's amazing to see what you can do when you advocate for yourself, when you get the support you need.
Christina Hepburn	When you go to safe spaces like these to learn, I, I love and commend what Athena does. And this is now my third time presenting on this topic with Athena, and I did it pre-COVID in person. I did it virtually, and here we are doing it virtually again. So it's it's pretty amazing to get to be here.
Christina Hepburn	And the wife and the mother of two adorable children. I love a good peppermint mocha Starbucks. I'm an aspiring author. Next year I'd love to write a children's book about working moms, and I also am going to pick up a racket sport next year. I want to do pickleball, along with the 13.6 million other people that have started playing pickleball.
Christina Hepburn	So if you're a pickleball, reach out to me. I want to meet you on the court next year. So today, what we're going to do, you learned a little bit about me. We are going to learn a little bit about you, and we're going to uncover what holds you back from negotiating. I'm going to put a few of you on the hot seat.
Christina Hepburn	We're going to do a little Starbucks activity, and I am going to give you some insights into why most negotiations fail. And then we're going to talk about a couple of strategies to overcome those maybe fears around failure or lack of preparation. And then lastly, we're going to end that with one other activity. This is something I now sell that I made a micro version for you guys.
Christina Hepburn	And you're going to be able to leave here with your own personal negotiation style that you can use when you leave here today for any negotiations you face in the future. So I do want to point out that this photo kind of addresses a little bit about what Holly said. There's a harsh reality for women in the workforce today that men maybe don't face.
Christina Hepburn	Right. So when you think about information is a negotiators greatest weapon, I love this quote by Victor Kim. But here's the thing about Victor he's a man. And if you look at this image, the men on the right have a lot easier path to reach their goals than the three women on the left. And a lot of that has to do with unpaid labor and household chores and the mental load.
Christina Hepburn	I don't know if anyone here has ever planned a baby shower, or a birthday party, or organized a company happy hour volunteered this unpaid labor. And a lot of times, even in the workplace, most things fall on women. Anyone? Yeah. I saw raised hand over there. Yep. So it happens. Right. And so to not address this is I would be remiss.
Christina Hepburn	Women are still making $0.84 to the dollar compared. So we have a little bit of a ways to go. And I want to empower you by sharing this story. So as a former recruiter, years ago I was hiring new grad candidates, new grad talent, and there was a male new grad and a female new grad, and they both were going for a marketing position.
Christina Hepburn	They both got the job, extended them both. The offer. Interestingly enough, the guy asked for $10,000 more of the salary I had offered him. Went to the hiring manager. The hiring manager approved it at a college. This guy's getting $10,000 more. The girl never asked and as a recruiter for that organization, I remember thinking, gosh, this has happened to me before, and I didn't know and I didn't ask.
Christina Hepburn	And now here I'm the person sitting in the recruiter seat. What do I do? I still feel bad. I didn't do anything, but at the same time, it wasn't in my best interest for my role to be handing out money to every female that didn't negotiate. So what did I do? I started getting involved with organizations like Athena and sharing the knowledge that I did know with others, and encouraged people to negotiate it.
Christina Hepburn	It's not greedy ladies. It's not greedy to ask for $10,000 more. And let me tell you an example of why. So out the gate there's a ten K delta. You think okay, what a missed opportunity. Fast forward your career ten years. You now have two kids. You're sitting on the couch, you've popped a stitch. You got to go back to work.
Christina Hepburn	You have a lot on your plate. And that $10,000.
Genevieve Flores	Would.
Christina Hepburn	Have covered the cost of a housekeeper for a year to take some of your load off, because now you have a husband who's watching your toddler, you're taking care of your newborn, and I have to go back to work. The money that you would earn isn't greedy. It it offers you the ability to outsource things, and that outsourcing gives you the freedom to thrive at work because you've got things under control.
Christina Hepburn	So that ten K delta out the gate, it's bad, but it compounds. And ten years into your career you're going to wish you asked for more. So this is your reminder, your disclaimer, right? It's not your recruiter's job. It's not your boss's job.
Genevieve Flores	It's the best way to make a right here.
Christina Hepburn	Oh, someone's talking. No big deal. But if you can, that be great? So now I want to ask you guys. So those are some external factors that could potentially get in the way of, you know, go sharing or reaching your goal. And there's a million resources out there. And I have some to offer you. I have it in the resources.
Christina Hepburn	Fair play. If anybody has ever heard of Eve Roski, she wrote a play which has a framework, fair play, which has a framework for.
Genevieve Flores	Just.
Christina Hepburn	Strategies to get around this unpaid labor within your household, within your home and the framework. I don't have time to talk about all of it today. That's an entirely different presentation, but if you have a moment to read about it or Google some videos online, they're really helpful in understanding ways to navigate around issues like these and really great strategies for negotiating.
Christina Hepburn	So now that you know a little bit more about some external factors, I want to know what gets in your way. So in the chat, if you wouldn't mind, type in what gets in your way. When it comes to negotiating. And there's the book. Thank you Genevieve.
Christina Hepburn	Okay. Imposter syndrome. Yes. Fear that the offer will be rescinded. Okay. The job market? Yep. Stock market stuff. Anything else? Fear. That's a common one. Yeah. I'm so happy to get an offer that you barely negotiated. I've done that. I'm guilty of that. In my early in my career, I did the same thing. Worried about the other candidates taking it personally.
Christina Hepburn	Interesting. Yep. So all of those things are valid. And it comes from. Yeah. Afraid to offend. Maybe some people feel greedy. And those are all valid concerns. I think a lot of people actually also aren't prepared or don't feel prepared or ready. They don't know their worth. They haven't been in the market analysis. Right. So that's when you find a friend, that's when you give me a call, you reach out to me on LinkedIn.
Christina Hepburn	No, but truly, these are all really, really common things. And what I want to do is I want to help you guys face your fears head on. I thought that what we could do is a fun little activity with the first three people that participated. So I see Amanda, Summer, I see Heather, and I see Christy and H.
Christina Hepburn	Frank. So you're going to be my three guinea pigs for the next activity. Hang tight. Okay, so what we're going to do, ladies, is Genevieve is going to set a one minute timer. I'm going to be giving away three Starbucks gift card. Your job is going to be to try and negotiate for the most valued ones. So one is $10, one is $20 and one is $30.
Christina Hepburn	So I think the first person that responded, I think it was Amanda is going to be going first. Obviously, if you're not wanting to be on the hot seat or you're driving or something like that, let me know. But we are going to do some live negotiating session and we're going to get going. So our man, are you there?
Christina Hepburn	Unmute. You don't have to share your screen if you don't want to.
Genevieve Flores	I'm here. Can you hear me?
Christina Hepburn	And hi.
Holly Smithson	Amy.
Christina Hepburn	Thanks for joining the call today.
Genevieve Flores	Of course. Sorry I'm off camera today.
Christina Hepburn	No worries. No worries at all. Okay, so give me your best shot at getting a Starbucks gift card.
Genevieve Flores	Three. Two. One. Go! I'm super excited to be here. One of the things that I can say is I think I bring a lot of passion. You know, sometimes there's hard skills or soft skills, but one way that I really, you know, I'm able to shine is really just through making connections. You know, the energy I bring, the positivity.
Genevieve Flores	Sometimes those things can be really hard to quantify, but I know they can make a big difference and working well with the team. One of the things too is, you know, you might ask me a question and I might not have the right answer, but what I can tell you is that I'm dedicated to finding that right answer.
Genevieve Flores	The next time you talk to me. I'm passionate. I'm excited. I'm dedicated to doing the best I can and really just giving it my all, no matter what. With a smile on my face.
Christina Hepburn	Nothing happens. Why are you asking me for today?
Genevieve Flores	I would like to ask for the $30 Starbucks gift card given that just what I've shared, I'm super excited and I really think I would have a fun time celebrating and bringing value and excitement to this gift card.
Christina Hepburn	Amazing! Okay, so I am and Anna, you did beautiful. Bravo. Good job.
Genevieve Flores	Thanks. That's that.
Christina Hepburn	That was fun, right? It was exciting. I'm glad that you enjoyed it. Your tone of voice is amazing. You were very clear. Your enthusiasm was evident. I did have to probe a little bit for the ask. Like, what are you looking for? What do you want to do? So I think that is one thing to just keep in mind.
Christina Hepburn	And the other thing was you shared with me about your enthusiasm, but I didn't know who this Starbucks was for. Is it for you? Is it for you and a friend? So for that reason, I'm going to give you the $10 Starbucks gift card because I wanted to learn a little bit more about, you and like who you would go to Starbucks with.
Genevieve Flores	So I will.
Christina Hepburn	Yeah. So thank you for my feedback.
Genevieve Flores	Thank you.
Christina Hepburn	Absolutely. Okay, so next person.
Christina Hepburn	It wasn't Christy.
Genevieve Flores	And there.
Christina Hepburn	Heather. Heather, are you there?
Holly Smithson	I'm here.
Christina Hepburn	Okay. Are you ready? There's two more big ones. A 20 and a 30.
Holly Smithson	All right. So, Christy, I really appreciate the opportunity to meet you, this evening. Thank you for your time. I am really a big Starbucks fan. I love coffee, and it really helps fuel my day. During the past year, you know, the economy has been extremely tough as most of us have experienced, and the business hasn't quite been there.
Holly Smithson	For me to be able to partake in such activities. Is going to Starbucks and treating myself when I feel like it's deserved. Whether it's be waking up at 5 a.m. to go to an early morning workout or unsuccessfully, you know, helps a hiring manager find a great candidate. So, you know, I would very much appreciate the opportunity to have the $30 Starbucks gift card.
Holly Smithson	It would be an honor to be able to share with people where I got this from, as well as to use part of the proceeds to buy coffee, for my group.
Genevieve Flores	Now.
Christina Hepburn	Hey. Bravo. So I really like that you you kind of pulled to my heart strings, to be honest. Right. And that really influenced my decision making. And so for that reason, I'm giving you the $30 gift card. And you have a dog, so you might as well get a pup cat while you're there to. How cute would that be?
Christina Hepburn	I love that.
Genevieve Flores	I thought about.
Holly Smithson	Using her as far as part of my leg.
Genevieve Flores	But I want to completely, you.
Holly Smithson	Know, take advantage of her.
Christina Hepburn	Yes. Thank you. Well, thank you for participating. Okay. We got one last one. And this is not a gimmick. You still have to earn it. I could still say no. So, Christiana, are you still there? Did I say that right?
Genevieve Flores	Christy? It's easier than it looks.
Christina Hepburn	Yes. Okay. Christian. So, thanks. Thanks for coming.
Speaker 4	All right. Do I need to wait for the.
Genevieve Flores	Jurassic Park countdown?
Christina Hepburn	Timer is go.
Genevieve Flores	Fast.
Speaker 4	Okay.
Genevieve Flores	So I really think I'm worth the $50 Starbucks card, but I would be willing to accept $20 or. Okay, I was hiding back there. The reason I say that is I've got a pretty decent social media following and a good networker as Holly knows, so I'd be happy to share sort of the positive feelings that come from such a successful negotiation.
Genevieve Flores	And I know the value. I bring over 3300 followers across LinkedIn and my two Instagram accounts, public and private. So it's got quite a reach I can get shared. I'd be happy to tag you and your company if I, you know, honored to receive, a gift card from this exercise. And I'll be honest, it's winter. Like seven hours of sleep in December feels like four hours.
Genevieve Flores	The rest of the time. So we all need some more caffeine. And I think you'd really just be paying it forward for anyone I encounter buy caffeinated me so that they would have a better experience with me, which I would say is all due to you.
Christina Hepburn	Oh my gosh. Wow. I have a problem that deserves a grand prize and I will tell you why I will not be able to get you that $50 gift card, but I will do you something very close. So I'm going to give you the $20 gift card, and I'm going to throw in a copy of the Fairplay method for you to read.
Christina Hepburn	And this has a $26 value. So we are almost there's a 4K delta. We're almost at 50 right there. Thank you.
Speaker 4	That's awesome.
Christina Hepburn	Yeah. So so there you go. So I wanted to just highlight ladies. You all did phenomenally. Wow I'm floored. And I what I did there at the end because I was so impressed by your strategy, using your marketing and wanting to promote me and asking for even more than just the $20 gift card available. I love that that's the energy I want you to bring when you go negotiate.
Christina Hepburn	And I feel as though things that you want to think about when you're negotiating are the possibilities, right? No. Where did I say that? I was giving away a book? I knew I was going to do it already, but I didn't know exactly when or to who or how. But that right there motivated me to go, oh, I can close this gap pretty closely.
Christina Hepburn	What two possible option I have. And there I pulled one from my desk. So some people call that a black swan. It's information that comes within a negotiation that you don't know about till the very end. And so just a little fun extra little nugget there for you. The Black Swan today was the fair play book that I gave away.
Christina Hepburn	Okay, so where I learned the term black Swan was actually from Chris Voss. He is a former FBI negotiator, and he wrote a book called Never Split the Difference. This is the first book I ever read on negotiation. And while I'm not a hostage negotiator, I had to work with a lot of new grads and interns. And let me tell you, it was an experience not like.
Christina Hepburn	But meeting in the middle was quite, a quite a technique there. And so one strategy that he leaves heavily into is called tactical empathy. Right? Understanding how people are feeling about things to influence their behavior in a negotiation. And so I'm actually going to play a little video clip for you from his TEDx talk in Nevada. So bear with me here.
Christina Hepburn	It starts at 223, and I'm going to play this for you guys, because he beautifully demonstrates what tactical empathy is. And he shares an example while he's at a bar, which sounds really strange, but it just goes to show you that negotiation is everywhere. It's not just at home and at work. It could be while you're out and about running errands or doing your thing.
Christina Hepburn	So let's cue this app and it's only a minute and a half, so wait till the end.
Speaker 4	I walk into a bar with three of our assets negotiators, and I realize it sounds like a joke for hostage negotiators walk into a bar and they don't pay for anything.
Speaker 4	But this actually happened. And four of us walk into the bar and a place is packed. It is jumping and I walk. I look around, I see a seat empty at the bar. I go over and get ready to sit down. It, and a guy sitting next to the seat says, don't even think about it. Now I'm a hostage negotiator.
Speaker 4	I'm going to talk to this guy. So I say, why is that? He says, Because I'll kick your ass. I say, I'm really there. I'm Chris, and I hold on my hand. The other negotiators with me swoop in and they put their arms around and say, hey, how you doing? Let us talk to you. You know what's going on.
Speaker 4	Let's see what's going on.
Speaker 4	We find out this guy's a former Vietnam vet and his life is in a shambles. It's a mess. No job, no girlfriend. He's out. He perceives the world is celebrating and happy and he's miserable. And that's one of the seats empty. You know, everybody tried to sit down. I offered to fight him. Now I know from hostage negotiation to get the hostage takers to use the hostages.
Speaker 4	Name it makes it much, much harder for them to hurt. But I'm some nameless guy. He's ready to hit me as soon as I become Chris. Everything changes. So how was I supposed to split the difference with that guy, anyway? Sit his lap. Sit under the chair. Right. So what do you do if you're armed with this tactical empathy from hostage negotiation?
Speaker 4	After you leave the FBI and you're looking for gainful employment, how do you find a real job? Hey, you read a book.
Christina Hepburn	Okay, so you guys got to kind of see a little bit about how he leveraged tactical empathy, how he explained it, how he humanizes something that can maybe be a sticky or a tricky or a tough situation. I'm sure when you think about going to ask for a raise right. Going into your year end review, asking for money from a recruiter, you think, oh, this is going to be uncomfortable.
Christina Hepburn	I don't like talking about money, but if you think about going into it from a really human place and understanding, hey, is this a good time to talk and building rapport? How are you doing today? You know, using their name? Thank you. Genevieve. Thank you Holly, really giving people that human effort. It makes all the difference in how a negotiation can start.
Christina Hepburn	And so I always think that this strategy is top of mind when I go into any negotiation, because it's something that I think often gets missed. Hey, can you introduce me to so-and-so instead of, hey, I remember when we were working together, you were the, the mascot for the Padres. How's that going? Right. It's not their day job.
Christina Hepburn	It's their side hustle. And now you're asking them about it. Oh, yeah. It's going well. I was just there last week, and thanks for asking. How are you? Oh. I'm great. I actually have a client looking for a job at your company. Can I send them your resume? And by the way, your twins are adorable. Thank you. Yes.
Christina Hepburn	Send it on over. Happy to help. Right. Someone's way more inclined to help you once you've humanized them. And it's not so transactional. And so I think that that's top of mind when you go into a negotiation, just like being prepared is. And so this next strategy I like to use is called the five P's. So before you go into any negotiation you want to make sure you prepare but not prepare in the way that you think.
Christina Hepburn	A lot of people go, I'm going to research who I'm talking to. I'm going to read the job description. I'm going to do a market analysis. That's great. Those are important you need to, but you also need to take personal inventory. What are your goals? What do you value? And if you know that in the beginning you can think more about what's at the end.
Christina Hepburn	So being really clear on what you need, what your goals are, do you need to work from home? Is it feasible for you to do that with the pickup? Do you need a certain amount of money every month to pay your bills? Right. You kind of have to understand that as well. So you're going to want to prepare and then you're going to want to probe, use a lot of the time to gain clarification and eliminate any assumptions.
Christina Hepburn	So if you go into it thinking, oh, it's only the base salary, I'm going to negotiate. But what about other things like sign and bonuses or restricted stock units? If you go into an end of the year review, and this is the first time you've ever addressed your advancing in the company, you didn't have the whole year ahead of it to prepare first is hey, for annual reviews at this organization, do people meet quarterly as a monthly one on ones?
Christina Hepburn	Is there typically a compensation adjustment at year end review time? Are there any ways or methods that we can set aside time to discuss my growth within the organization and my development? Thinking about and then once you've probed, then you can move into possibilities. What are things that this organization offers to advance and develop me? Are there conferences that the organization would support paying for sending me to, is there tuition reimbursement that I could maybe use to advance my knowledge?
Christina Hepburn	If it's in the same wheelhouse as the role I'm in? Are there books I can leverage, or are there is there a car allowance available? Right. If you're already an organization figuring out what you can do beyond just the money and the base salary, can I work from home three days a week? Right. All of those non-monetary things are the all the possibilities that you want to make sure you you turn over those stones and understand what is actually available to you.
Christina Hepburn	And lastly, the ask you need to make sure that you have a clear ask. Because once you have that, you go right into partnering. You turn maybe your adversaries into counterparts, right? Someone that you are nervous to talk to. Now you're working together to help address and meet the ask that you have. And so those are the five P's.
Christina Hepburn	And so that brings me to a recruiter method a case study. One of our clients her name is Jane. We'll call her Jane. And she was in a demanding job. She was a technical program manager at a big organization, was earning a lot of money. But the demands of her job got pretty intense, especially once she had a ten month old baby at home and was going to be entering a phase of her career where they have a 24/7 support on call shift one week a month.
Christina Hepburn	Now, if you never had a ten month old before, if you're still nursing, you are up at many hours of the night and you're bouncing things during the day and pumping. It's kind of a transitional phase of life. And so Jane had decided that this is just too much, and she had three possibilities, which were one not sleep any more than she was already not sleeping, two get a new job, or three she had to just go to her boss and say, hey, can you take me off of this on call?
Christina Hepburn	Sure. That's not going to work with my lifestyle?
Genevieve Flores	Well.
Christina Hepburn	She did two of the three things, and two of them she did at the same time. So she had decided it was going to be too much. She was scared. So she went out and looked for a new job. She reached out to us. We helped her redo her resume and get job interviews. And the day that she was waiting for a job offer, her boss came to her and said, hey, how are you doing?
Christina Hepburn	Are you ready to go back to that 2724 seven shift? She said, no, I'm actually not. It's going to be too stressful for me. And her boss says, well, once, if it's getting to the point where you're looking for a new job, let me know. And she goes, I'm expecting an offer today. We're at that point. And so, you know, as for coaches, both she and I felt like, gosh, she kind of avoided that conversation a little too long.
Christina Hepburn	But at the same time, the very next day, she was taken off the rotation from her work, and she got an offer from the company that she'd interviewed for. So now, as a result, she had these new opportunities to decide between. And ultimately she decided to take the new opportunity. Now, the new opportunity, in my opinion, was kind of a compromise.
Christina Hepburn	It was less money. It was a contract. And we at least helped her negotiate from a three month contract to a six month contract. But it's still risky because assuming that was over, she would have to go look for a new job, and that can be stressful and time consuming as well. So what she did was we helped her leverage all of her different styles and assess which ones that she leaned towards, and we encouraged her to use other ones to her advantage.
Christina Hepburn	So the three negotiation styles that she had worked through were avoiding to start, then compromising to get her second job offer locked in. But then something happened. Two months into her contract job, the company came to her with a full time offer. They said, you're doing amazing. We want you. Do you want to come full time? And what she did was she actually countered their offer because it was too low.
Christina Hepburn	She was leading a team. She knew she was doing a good job. She had a lot of leverage. And so what she did was she was able to lean into the competing strategy that I'm going to win the I will fulfill my obligations in this contract, but I'm going to be looking for a new job once it's up.
Christina Hepburn	If we can't get your offer to be to be bigger and more robust, if we can't get some additional reviews, if we can't get a signing bonus, and if we can't get me a bigger title, right. She went from a manager senior manager to an associate director. So she was able to really lean into, you know, her abilities and capabilities within the role and use the competing style to negotiate.
Christina Hepburn	Now, not everyone, not everyone is going to have three negotiations in three months. That was actually kind of a lot, but she handled them beautifully and she used a different style every time, even though her natural tendency, her style was avoiding. So what we're going to do today is we're actually going to have you guys take a negotiation style assessment.
Christina Hepburn	Genevieve is going to put it in the chat for everybody. And what I can do is actually show you as well how to make a copy of the document. So you are sure. Do you want to put it in the chat, Genevieve, or is it going? It's going.
Genevieve Flores	I just put it in.
Christina Hepburn	Thank you. Okay. So what I'm going to have you all do is everyone go into the document.
Genevieve Flores	And it.
Christina Hepburn	Is a Google doc. So take a look at it and go to file and make yourself a copy. Make yourself a copy and you're going to answer these ten questions when we do it at Recruiter Method. It's a 30 question. I made it micro because I know we're on a tight time frame, but you're going to have five minutes to answer these questions.
Christina Hepburn	You know, when you go into a negotiation, do you gain consensus or do you identify underlying issues. Type in your response. And then at the end, your total should be ten. But find out how many BS you have, how many CS you have and add them all up here at the bottom. So I'm going to give you all five minutes to do so.
Christina Hepburn	Does anybody have any questions about the assessment or how to fill it in and how to make a copy.
Christina Hepburn	Now okay. Timer is running.
Christina Hepburn	And once you're done, go ahead and just hit done in the chat. So I know kind of when people are starting to wrap it up.
Christina Hepburn	Oh, done. Okay. We have some fast people.
Christina Hepburn	And and maybe put done. And what your what your leading style was. I'm curious.
Christina Hepburn	So you're accommodating?
Speaker 4	Yeah.
Christina Hepburn	Yeah. See?
Speaker 4	Okay.
Christina Hepburn	Avoiding analytics okay. Good. Competing. Kelly. Good.
Christina Hepburn	Answer. Fast.
Christina Hepburn	And your responses should really be from the gut. I don't want you thinking about them too much. What is your natural tendency? What do you just gravitate towards? So if you're debating going, I'm probably more like this. Not what you ought to answer.
Speaker 4	Okay.
Christina Hepburn	He's compromising. Great.
Christina Hepburn	Compromising. Excellent.
Christina Hepburn	Higher. Tied for avoid and accommodate. Yep. It is easier to tie with the micro assessment when you do the 30 questions. There's a lot more disparity. So you have kind of a clear outlier. But I also tied when I did it myself just to test it out to make sure it weren't compromising collaborating. Yep. Very common. Good commentating okay.
Speaker 4	Oh.
Genevieve Flores	Good.
Christina Hepburn	Now, Genevieve, are we at the five minute mark?
Genevieve Flores	Almost one more minute.
Christina Hepburn	Okay.
Christina Hepburn	And then I think, well okay. So I'm going to click to the next slide for those that are done just so they can let's look at here.
Christina Hepburn	There we go. Okay. So I'm so happy to see that everybody was able to complete the negotiation style assessment. So I love seeing there's a lot of compromising I love seeing some competing some avoiding I think is common among women. I personally am a collaborator. I always am the broker of the deal. When you think about a recruiter, I want the candidate to be happy.
Christina Hepburn	I want the hiring manager to be happy. And so I naturally just try to collaborate so everybody wins, when I'm at work. But I think as a person, I kind of lead towards compromising. Harmony is really important to me. And so I'm okay to concede if it means preserving the relationship. And so there are some nice things about that.
Christina Hepburn	And competing. Right. I think it's important to lean into into that style when you have leverage, right? When the relationship isn't at risk of being damaged, but rather it's, you know, something like when you're going for a parking spot and who got there first and you've got screaming kids in the car, you can be more aggressive. You go get that spot right, I get it.
Christina Hepburn	But, but, you know, sometimes at work it doesn't really make sense to burn a bridge, right? Because you're going to continue to work with that person. Or if there's a vendor that you've had a long standing relationship with, do you really need to win, or do you need to make sure that you both feel like you've won?
Christina Hepburn	So definitely leaning into negotiation style, does anyone have any questions around theirs or anything that I can help address? I do have, some pretty in-depth knowledge that I usually speak to for these when I do it for my clients, but I'm happy to answer any questions around them.
Genevieve Flores	In the chat. How I mean how. Howdy. Oh, sorry. This is it. I just how.
Holly Smithson	Do you recommend? Kind of, I guess being a little bit more of the collaborative versus the compromising, like how do you kind of gift and adjust your negotiation style, or is your negotiation style, your negotiation style?
Christina Hepburn	No, I think the value of these negotiation styles is now that now you know they exist, right? So maybe you have a tendency to do one thing just because it's your natural tendency. But now, you know, there's other ways you can approach a negotiation. You can adjust. Right? So hey, I'm compromising. I'm not really loving the result of my natural style.
Christina Hepburn	So I'm going to work to try and accommodate more. I'm going to work to try and collaborate more. And if that means meeting in the middle, then you make the ask, right? Hey, I know that you wanted me to be home by my 10:00 curfew, but I got an A on my test and I am really hoping to be home by 1030.
Christina Hepburn	Right. So you got to make the ask. I'm still home and within the 10:00 hour, but it's just 30 minutes past. You're happy? I'm happy. And I can go see my 730 movie or whatever, right? So versus just, okay, I'll be home at curfew, right? So less accepting and more collaborating and you just have to be probably more prepared.
Christina Hepburn	I think a reason 80% of negotiations fail is because of a lack of preparation. So if you can understand what do I need to do to feel extremely prepared for this conversation? What data do I need to do? Kind of like the five P's. What research do I have to do to make sure that I know what I'm asking for?
Christina Hepburn	What will feel like a win for me, and what can I clarify so that it will feel like a win for the other party I'm working with? So yeah. So which negotiation styles the best? Which one do you use? It depends on the situation always. And so now that you kind of know and understand the different versions, it's helpful because you can use them to your advantage.
Christina Hepburn	Oh this person seems like all they care about is winning. How can I make it seem like they win? Well, as a recruiter, a strategy I would use is I would always leave something in my pocket, right? So if somebody wanted $50,000 and a ten K sign on, well, I would probably start with, hey, we can offer you 45, no sign on.
Christina Hepburn	What do you think? And then let them counter. And then when they counter, I'd say, okay, there's, you know, good news and bad news. You know, we weren't able to get you fully to 50. We got you to 48. But the good news is you're getting a ten K sign on. And so, you know, how does that feel.
Christina Hepburn	And it's a lot easier than I could do nothing for you. Right. And so making that person feel like they won was really important to somebody who has like a competing style. And as a recruiter, I could kind of tell.
Holly Smithson	Who who.
Christina Hepburn	Was going to go which way, just based on the rapport and relationship we had throughout the hiring process.
Christina Hepburn	Great question. Any other questions?
Genevieve Flores	You there's a question.
Christina Hepburn	Oh, yeah.
Genevieve Flores	In the chat, strategies to move from accommodate to collaborate.
Christina Hepburn	Yeah, absolutely. You know, accommodate is is a tough one. Right. Because I think as women, a lot of times we feel the need to concede, and me included. Right. I think sometimes especially with my toddler, I'm like, fine, here's the candy. Fine. One more Blippi. Right. Like you're tired. There's a lot going on, I get it. But after accommodate too long, you get resentful and you want to make sure that there are other ways to move from it.
Christina Hepburn	And I think it kind of goes back to preparation. Right. So an example of the blue issue that I faced with accommodating. Right. Rather than have a meltdown every time I take the TV away or just give in, my strategy now is I go, okay, this kid's for he's going to be upset no matter when I turn off the TV after one episode or after four.
Christina Hepburn	So what I do to prepare now is before I turn it on, I go, we're going to watch two episodes of Bluey, and then after we're going to play with Play-Doh, after we're going to decorate the Christmas tree, after we're going to have some ice cream. So I have a plan in place so that when I turn off the TV, there is something fun to do after, right?
Christina Hepburn	That is the strategy I use. And now we're collaborating. Okay, the TV's off. Do you want chocolate ice cream or do you want vanilla ice cream? He's going to want vanilla, right. So I better have vanilla in my freezer ready to go. Or I better have some really fun Play-Doh or activity to do. So the way to move like strategies from accommodating to collaborating is figuring out how you can best collaborate in the beginning.
Christina Hepburn	So it's not just the execution, it's the concept and the planning piece. And that framework is, in this fair play method book, anything that she does, she breaks it into this, you know, the concept of it, the planning of it and the execution of it. And a lot of people get caught up or disgruntled about the execution, but really it's the conception and the planning where people need to put a lot more of their time and energy.
Christina Hepburn	Great question. I think I saw one more in the chat. Have other options you are willing to accept to be prepared? Yeah. The possibilities. Right. That's a great call out. So thinking about what other possibilities are available besides giving in with another show or dealing with the meltdown? What else can you do? In this possibility is people always forget it's not just the monetary, it's vacation time.
Christina Hepburn	So RC is it's a tuition reimbursement. I pretty much got most of my master's degree paid for by two different organizations, simply because I negotiated, and it happened to overlap with one year. So I think of a $30,000 program. I only paid $5,000 out of pocket. My employers paid the rest. So that's a huge value, right? That wasn't in my base salary.
Christina Hepburn	It wasn't in the sign on bonus, but it was within like part of something that I negotiated and a benefit that both companies offered that I didn't go. She added into my offer.
Christina Hepburn	Okay, so we're coming up on time, so I just want to kind of close it out a little bit. I know that there that the market right now, the journey for a lot of people is rough. You know, I've been laid off before. A lot of people have been laid off like somebody had put in the comments, I'll take any job.
Christina Hepburn	Right. You're kind of more in this like desperate state, but I want you guys to understand that the career roadmap isn't just about the end. It's not just about the offer negotiation. It's not just about the year end review. Right? It is very holistic. There's strategy involved. There's materials involved, there's networking involved. There's interviewing. You know, when you're going to ask for an introduction, think about how you're going to approach it going forward.
Christina Hepburn	And if you ever need help throughout your career map or your journey, let me know, because I'm here and available to to take a call. And so what I did was, the last page of this deck, which I think we're going to share out, there's a resources section. And if you want to book a call to talk with me, I'm more than happy to do that.
Christina Hepburn	And if you want to get a list of the books I referenced, they're also going to be in the resources page. So if there's any other questions or anything I can help address, I'm more than happy to do so. Otherwise I'm here. Thank you for having me. Let me know.
Genevieve Flores	Yeah. So this is the Q&A section everyone. If you aren't available to use your microphone right now, then you can go ahead and ask them in the chat too. And I can ask them on your behalf to screen.
Christina Hepburn	Super helpful. Thank you. Good. Oh I love it. I'm glad it flew by. I'm glad to die for you. It did for me too. I can't believe it's already almost over.
Christina Hepburn	Any questions? You know, one question that I didn't get to answer, that somebody asked in the very beginning is they're afraid that your offer is going to get rescinded if you ask for more money. I personally have not done that in my career, like over almost two decades now in recruiting. I've never done that. I haven't seen someone do it.
Christina Hepburn	The only time that we would ever rescind an offer is if you are being, if you, like, lied or didn't pass a background check, you know, oh, I said, I do this, and I actually don't or I didn't do this. And then it pops up on your background check. Those are really the only times, very rarely did somebody ask for an outrageous amount of money.
Christina Hepburn	If ever. And in those cases, I would say no. And a lot of times negotiations start with no and they shouldn't deter you. They should be kind of what you expect to happen. And then how do you navigate the no right. Okay. I'll start with Jacqueline because you raised your hand first.
Genevieve Flores	Thank you. Christina.
Christina Hepburn	I've been enjoying this presentation a lot. So thank you for all the information. I do have a question.
Holly Smithson	How many in your thoughts?
Christina Hepburn	Right.
Genevieve Flores	How many times? Sure.
Christina Hepburn	You, have the conversation about salary negotiation.
Genevieve Flores	There is a budget.
Christina Hepburn	Constraint, so you have to wait, right? And then you have it again. And how persistent the are you? Do you have to be or.
Genevieve Flores	Yeah, at some point.
Christina Hepburn	I don't know if you have any thoughts about that. Yeah. You know that's I think a lot of companies are facing budgetary constraints right now and a lot of people's annual reviews and increases and salary changes are being pushed out. It's a very common thing that's happening with a lot of clients I'm working with. And to be honest, it's something where I think in today's market you just kind of have to do your best.
Christina Hepburn	As far as getting a sense of win, right? Is it if or is it when? And I think once we have clarity on those things, you can make a decision about what to do next. So is it if I get promoted or is it when I get promoted? That's what you really need to understand. And if it's if, well then maybe you need to start looking outside of your organization where they're really going to value what you have to offer and pay you what you're worth.
Christina Hepburn	And if it's when, then you can understand, okay, when am I waiting for this? Or is it just too far out and arbitrary and I just can't hold on any longer?
Speaker 4	Great.
Christina Hepburn	Thank you so much.
Genevieve Flores	Yeah.
Christina Hepburn	Amanda.
Genevieve Flores	Hi, Christina. Thank you so much. This is great. Love the activity and feedback. My question is around how to navigate the question early on in the screening process about salary expectations when or in California ranges are posted. I recently heard it was from a male recruiter and he was asking or sort of trying to pin me to a number where he was trying to position it in a way, and he explicitly stated, we don't want you to be coming in ahead of people who have been here for a long time, kind of trying to push me down.
Genevieve Flores	And I was I just didn't know how to respond to that.
Christina Hepburn	Yeah, that's a tough one. Because really, they're not supposed to discriminate against you based on what you're earning, right? And they're not really supposed to push you down. Like, as a recruiter, that's not a really best practice, in my opinion. And that basically just tells me that they're hiring for whoever's they are not paying you what you're worth.
Christina Hepburn	So that's that is concerning. I would say for me personally, though, and especially given the market, a lot of people are like, well, this is my only job offer. So I kind of got to lean in a little bit. I get that I think navigate, and I personally don't like negotiating my myself out of a job from the get go.
Christina Hepburn	I like to go through the entire process because I look at it as data and you're kind of learning the company, learning how they run the ship, learning how the interview process is meeting other members of the team. And so something like that. Early on, I would say, well, I'm okay with the range of the position that you have, you know, put on the website, you know, anywhere to the midpoint and above is something I'm interested in.
Christina Hepburn	But can you help clarify it for me is the range that you have posted the entire range, or is it the range to midpoint, because a lot of organizations will post the range to midpoint. And at some organizations I've worked that as a recruiter, we're allowed to go a certain percentage above the midpoint, right. We had the liberty to do so.
Christina Hepburn	And so understanding is this the full range or is this just to midpoint I think is a good way to, you know, kind of shift the conversation from, well, what's available versus, you know, what you're worth because you haven't even fully finished the interview process unless you're saying that's at the end.
Genevieve Flores	And this is great, super helpful. This is very beginning. And I'll definitely use that strategy for sure.
Christina Hepburn	Clarifying questions. Understand at the end, Kelly, I know you had a question.
Genevieve Flores	Yeah. I was just.
Speaker 5	I was, thinking more about that, those non-monetary negotiation examples, you know, early in the career, I, was asking for a high level executive female mentor. So that's like an easy free thing that they can give me. But I set me up long, long term for success. So I was just curious if there's some other.
Genevieve Flores	Easy softballs that,
Speaker 5	I could throw out there comparable to that, that you could recommend?
Christina Hepburn	Yeah. I think something, you know, ERG groups. Right. The employer resource groups, if the company offers them. I found out about Athena through a Women in Technology group. And so it was at an organization. And so I think that those, especially for learning, are free resources that organizations offer. Find out about them. Benefits had I known. But when I was at into it, they do 1.25% match for retirement.
Christina Hepburn	So when I'm at the end of my career and I want to retire, that is an extremely high rate compared to even other companies. I've worked that, which is just that 50% match. So depending on what you want, you know, that's a number to look at too, right? What's their retirement plan? And then, you know, future Christina would have thanked me had I ended my career there.
Christina Hepburn	Right? I would have had a nice retirement. So, and not to say other companies don't offer it, but those are just little tiny things that all have a value that could be overlooked because of the phase of your career you're in. Or, they don't cost the company any extra money. But when you're looking at benefits, that could be something to look into.
Christina Hepburn	I know my partner, actually, she did IVF and her company had paid for a lot of it because it was a benefit. Right. So maybe she didn't get an extra $10,000 on her base salary, but she sage $12,000 in medical cost because she knew this is something she wanted to do right? Great question.
Genevieve Flores	So okay.
Christina Hepburn	Oh, that's the last question. Your perfect.
Genevieve Flores	Yep. Oh I'm sorry. We we don't have time for any more questions. At the moment, however, I'm sure that Christina would be welcome to any sort of, working together after the call. So thank you all so much for for coming this evening. It's been an absolute honor to have you here with us. Christina. We learned some incredible tools.
Genevieve Flores	I think the biggest thing that stuck with me was the claim your value not only in negotiations, not only in salary and in the workplace, but also just every day in what feels like minutia. But those little moments of claiming your value at the stoplight or at the, in the parking lot, those builds, those build your subconscious for these, for these big moments.
Genevieve Flores	Right. So thank you so much. That was my takeaway. And so for the Athena voice, I would just like to say thank you all so much for attending. I want to say a huge thank you to Patricia Franklin and Christine Barth, who are our co-chairs of the six Series Committee. They were the committee that presented this incredible program tonight.
Genevieve Flores	So thank you so much to Christine and Patricia. If you are in Athena and you are not part of a committee and you're interested in joining one, I am dropping the link to the committee page right now so you can check out the committees. We have, because we have some wonderful ones. I basically do all the grunt work, and you get to ideate and think of new programs and think of how to convene these brilliant women together.
Genevieve Flores	And then the other thing is, I know that there's a lot of nonmembers on this call, too. We're so happy to have you. And so if you are interested in joining Athena and staying in the loop and joining a committee or using all of our other resources that we have, then here is the link to the Join Athena page.
Genevieve Flores	Thank you all so much. Again, I'll be sending out an email with the recording as well as Christina's deck. So thank you all for joining and have a wonderful, wonderful evening.
Christina Hepburn	Thanks everyone.
Genevieve Flores	And thank you. Thank you.