LWC March | Misti Cain |Techstars

Holly Smithson

Hi everyone and welcome to this edition of Athena's Lifting Wall Climbing Podcast. I am your host, Athena's President and CEO, Holly Smithson. And this podcast is brought to us by our partners at Qualcomm. And I am here to tell you we have a fantastic guest in the studio and I can't think of a more dynamic guest to have as we celebrate Women's History Month. And yes, some of us are still celebrating Women's History Month. Misty Kane, thank you for joining us.

Misti Cain

Thank you for having me, Holly. It's a pleasure.

Holly Smithson

Well, you know, we have been hosting this podcast available on Spotify for the last seven years. And the genesis of our podcast was really to tell the stories of women like you and to create this platform of bethatgirl. Stories of inspiration and opportunities for women to see themselves and others and really kind of put the spotlight on the different resources, the sponsorship, the mentorship, the grit, the, the chitzpah, the, the whatever worked for you to get you where you are today in the hopes that our audience and our listeners might contemplate a strategy that resembles some of the approaches that work for you and our guests in this podcast. So I'm excited to kind of jump in on your very, very illustrious career. You and I had a great occasion to meet during the TEDx San Diego show last month where I was just blown away by you, not only because of your background, but also just your finesse and your comfort being fabulous. And I can't say that with any more greater authentic because it's just, it's just lovely how it comes across from you.

Misti Cain

You're like a self esteem booster in person. I love this.

Holly Smithson

Well, and, and, and I say that because when, when folks get to hear your story and I'd love for you to jump in it, but you know, you're a, you're a, you know, a business reality host with, with Intuit's mailchimp program many years ago. You're also a founder. You are also just an extraordinary mentor and a managing partner, obviously the TEDx. But you also were able to take the COVID of, for Forbes magazine as the strategic queen bee a couple of years ago. So tell us a little bit about how this magnificent journey became your reality.

Misti Cain

Here's what I love about everything that you just said is because when you look at me on paper, you think this has probably been a journey in the making, right? She probably went to the best colleges and she grew up in such an entrepreneurial environment. And that's prob. Probably not the path for Me, for someone to achieve greatness, they must have had xyz. And the thing that I love about my journey is that, number one, it was very circuitous. Like, if you could have carved out a more labyrinthian route to where I am today, I would have been so impressed. I was raised in a town called Visalia, California. And if you don't know where Visalia is, you're welcome. It is a very small town. I think it's a small town. People who come from like super small towns, like girls, a regular sized town. But I thought it was so small, very agricultural. It is lots of cows, lots of farming, and it is smack dab in the middle of California. I consider it like the Midwest of California. My dad was a truck driver. My mom was an administrative assistant. So she had administrative assistant jobs from the time I was born.

That's what I knew. And I did not discuss entrepreneurship with my family. Those were not the conversations that we had. The conversations that we had were, don't mess up with your mom, don't mess up in school, don't mess up in church. Those were our rules. That's what I had to go off of. The other thing was, it doesn't matter what rooms you're in, what titles you have, if the trash needs to be taken out, you take out the trash. So my dad was from Arkansas, moved out to California when he was young. I was raised in California. And so it was just a very humble background that I grew up with. And the reason why I bring that up is because for me to be here, where I am today, the network I have, the mentorship I've had, the opportunities that I've had, the ability to grace the TEDx stage, like all of those things, I want people to know and understand that you can have any type of background, right? You can come from a background that is very successful and entrepreneurial in nature. You can come from more humble means and still be able to thrive, both personally as well as professionally.

The one thing that I think that I never stopped doing was learning. Learning and being super curious. And while it sounds very simple, I think there is complexity to it. And the one area of complexity. And then I would also love to hear your feedback and your take on it. Holly. That area of complexity is as humans, we tend to really love certain subjects or be really attracted to certain topics or ideas, and that's great. However, if you can be curious about a lot of things and a lot of different topics, a lot of different people, a lot of different cultures, a lot of different Ideologies, a lot of different ideas. You don't have to agree. I'm not saying agree with everything I'm saying. Just be curious about them and learn about them. You can expand not only yourself, but also your ability to think critically, to meet new people, to explore new ideas, and to elevate yourself both personally and professionally, as opposed to being so dogmatic or myopic about very specific things. That could be religion, it could be politics, it could be career, it could be innovation, it could be your relationships, whatever it is.

The curiosity, I would say, is probably one of. Out of. I would say maybe three or four things that really, really helped me to thrive, both personally and professionally.

Holly Smithson

Yeah. And it's. I think they. They say that the days say that those people that have the most flexibility or the least amount of rigidity are those that are met with more fulfillment in their career and their lives. So I think that kind of. Kind of dovetails on your. Your observation beautifully.

Misti Cain

It definitely does. So the curiosity, definitely one of the highlights, I would say, of my ability to advance career as well as personally. The other thing is proactivity. So a lot of people will wait for opportunities or follow the normal route to do things. I was just giving a talk at Cal State University, San Marcos. One of my colleagues, as well as a former client, asked me to come and speak to his college class. And the thing that we were talking about is career decisions, and how did I get to where I am and what did that look like? And I said, one of the takeaways is 99% of people won't. And they're like, what do you mean by that? The fact is, it is not hard to be part of the 1%. And I'm not talking about just financially, because we know that there is a lot of poverty and things in this world, and that doesn't necessarily mean you're successful. There are people who have a lot of money are just broken. And I know you're like, but I'd rather cry in a chateau in France than in the hood. Got it Right.

I'm not saying that money can't be helpful. I'm just saying that doesn't make you a successful human. But I was Talking about the 99% of people won't take away. And essentially what that means to me is that the bar for what people consider wow is actually pretty low. And 99% of people still won't do it. They won't follow up on an email. They won't follow up on a request. They won't show up to an event that you can't rely on them, you can't count on them for things. They won't introduce, introduce themselves to strangers. They won't take a risk, they won't take a shot. 99 of people just won't do it because, well, either they think, well, that's. That's not how you're supposed to. You're supposed to xyz. And that's how everybody does it, right? Maybe, maybe not.

Holly Smithson

Rigid thinking.

Misti Cain

Or there's fear there. And I'm not coming to this realization from a place of, oh, my goodness, I've never had that fear or I've never not taken my shot or I've never not done the thing. There have definitely been times where I've been in that seat, but I've gotten less and less uncomfortable being uncomfortable. And 99% of people won't. And so they stay in the same patterns and in the same places their entire life or a majority of their life because of that. So if you are proactive, if you proactively reach out to people, if you proactively learn things, if you proactively give first. And sometimes people like, I don't have anything to give. I don't have a skill. I don't have money. I don't have not. Yes, you do. You have your time and your attention. You have your ability to engage. You have your ability to follow something. If you want to be like someone who has reached a pinnacle, go do something they did and then tell them that's it. Just like, hey, read your book. Went out and did the thing that you said in your book. This is what happened.

Just want to thank you. You would not believe the doors that that opens. It's wild. But 99% of people won't. But that is still a give. You bought their book. You went out and followed the thing that they spent all that time researching and pouring and putting out into the world, and then you went back and you thanked them or followed up or followed through with them. 99 of people won't do that. Even after I say it, even after someone hears this, they're like, what a great idea? Won't do it. They'll forget. Like, they get busy and then they get into the pattern of lives. So curiosity and then proactivity and that give first a couple of more takeaways, I think that are super valid.

Holly Smithson

And when I hear you saying that I, I really think is salient is the, the intention. And you know, we, before we, we were in the green room before we jumped onto this podcast and I got notifications saying the sky is falling with politics and the administration. And I said with great intention, I am going to have this fantastic, very dynamic conversation with just a badass woman. And I'm really excited about that. And that's all I get to do is bring intention into this conversation that I know is going to have mad tentacles into the Athena digital community. And that just gives me Jo and just that intention. And when we articulate that, when we voice it, then it breathes life into it. Like the opportunity to be proactive, like the opportunity to execute, to have integrity, follow through, do what you say. It's just, it starts with this intention and I would argue obviously a desire underneath the intention. Um, and again, what I love that you said and, and just want to kind of reinforce that is, it's, it is not complex. These are simple tools that are within our reach. They don't wait.

They're not, they're. They're not dependent on anybody or anything other than our own desire to have an impact, to serve our purpose, to bring joy to the world that we live and work in. And I, I don't mean to oversimplify it, but to your point, yeah, it's simple. There's complexity, but it is simple. But I. Easy 100 and that's that, that nugget though, that nugget to me is that burning desire. And I have a desire today to do something different than I've been doing because I want to do something more or faster or bigger or better. And I suffer from the bigger battery, bigger, better batter syndrome all day, all day long. I'm still working with Grace on that. But yeah, it's driven by I certainly by a desire. Okay, so let's shift the conversation if I may a little bit and talk about. So we've got these three sort of foundational approaches. Tell us a little bit like some case studies because I would like for the audience to hear about how you were able to, you know, become into it this, you know, Fortune 100 multi billion dollar company and sudd for this brand new business reality talk show host.

How does somebody get to do something like that?

Misti Cain

100%. So the one thing that I will say is a lot of times people tell you, well just go out and start doing. Please don't do that. Don't just go out and start doing things without the expertise or the knowledge of how to do something. There is this philosophy that if you are just 10% ahead of someone else, you can teach someone Right. So let's say you have something that you're interested in, but you do not have the skill set yet go out and learn the thing. And I don't just mean the book knowledge of it to where you have a knowledgeable grasp. Mentally learn something and then go out and implement it and create a success metric. I'm going to give you an example. Let's say you want to start a business, and you've never started a business before. So you go out and you say, I'm going to learn how to start a business. And there's tons of things on the Internet about how to start a business, and a lot of it is disparate. And, oh, how do I do this? What I'm going to do is I'm going to learn everything I can about how to come up with great ideas, and then I'm going to try my hand at coming up with what I think is a great idea.

Well, how do you know it's a great idea? Find something measurable that means for you that you came up with a great idea. I'm going to come up with idea that at least 100 people will pay me for to execute, build, or provide that is measurable. Right. Did I come up with something that provided enough value that 100 people would actually give me their money and then use it? Right. You learned it, you did it, you measured it. Take anything in life that you would like to do and follow that tactic. Learn it, do it, measure it. I think that by using that same philosophy with things that I wanted to do, I had very, I would say, serendipitous introductions into a lot of things. So, for example, I was just talking about how I got to where I was. I had weird jobs. I think the first. When I was like, in third grade, my first thing was reading books and selling the p. I was part of the bookit club and I used to read a lot. And so there were kids who didn't read. They were like, man, you have a lot of pizza coupons.

I was like, well, I'll read the book, write the book report for you, and you can buy my pizza coupon. And they're like, that'd be amazing. First business, right? Reading books, which. Thank you. And then writing their book report on it. And then they would pay me for the pizza coupon. I was a babysitter. I worked at a movie theater. And then I got a job through someone, a friend of the family, working at a health insurance company. And then someone said there was more money working on the hospital side. So I went into medical records. None of this is strategic. It is just, okay, okay, okay. And then I wanted to move down to San Diego because my brothers lived here in San Diego is gorgeous. No strategy. Just moved. I was like, this is gorgeous. It's awesome. I love it. I come down to visit with my parents. So at this point, I'm just doing whatever. No one's asking me to speak. No one's asking me to teach them. No one's asking me to be in Forbes. No one is asking me to be on a show. And then I decide that marketing.

And it's a really funny story how marketing became the thing that I was interested in. Basically, one of my colleagues was always going out to dinner and to shows and to concerts and the events. And I'm like, what do you do? She says, I'm in marketing. And when people want to get in front of the doctors, they need to go through us. So they give us all of this stuff in order to. I mean, they. They call it like a business lunch or a business dinner or a business event. And I was like, I want to be in marketing. No, I didn't. I just wanted to eat. And so I got into marketing, but then I fell in love with marketing. And then I started learning about marketing, and then I started doing things in marketing. And that is when I realized, oh, there is actually a strategy to this. If you start learning about a thing and then you start doing the thing, seeing measurable. That's key. Measurable success of a thing. People will ask you more and more about that thing if you're just 10% ahead of someone else. I had an opportunity to go and be a copywriter.

I had written for a newspaper again, something that I just decided to do when I moved to San Diego. But the lifestyle editor said that I did a good job, hired me on to write more articles. And then I got a job at Valley View Casino as their copywriter. And then a colleague that I worked with was moving on to the Chamber of Commerce, and she said, do you want. Do you want my job? I'm the director of marketing and won't pay very well, but you can have the title. I'm like, director, yes, please. In my 20s with a director title. Can't even. And so I got into this marketing, and I was like, this is what's. I started learning about marketing and digging deep into marketing. And then businesses from the chamber would ask me questions. I would consult with the president of the Carlsbad Chamber of Commerce, and we would Talk about what to do. I started learning about marketing, and now I had a skill that I could go back and teach someone else. And then from there, at the Carlsbad Chamber of Commerce, I got asked to interview the president of a franchise company.

Well, later on, they had a director of training and marketing position. And because I knew him, network getting to know people. And I'm like, hey, I interviewed you. I would be interested in the position, more money, because that was what I thought was the most important thing at that time. But I was still in marketing, and I learned even more about marketing. Then I worked with a marketing agency, and then that agency poached me from that franchise company. And then I got to work on these big brands, and I'm working with the top, like, executives at these companies at the island of Aruba and Hilton. And I'm learning all of this from my colleagues and being able to take that knowledge and help other people. So you learn the thing, you do the thing, you get known for the thing. And because I'm part of an agency, we are supposed to promote ourselves. So they let me write blogs. I could write in Forbes. Like, I got to co author a blog post with the CMO of the company. They would put me on stages. People thought I was eloquent when I spoke. So not everybody can follow that exact journey.

But what can you learn from it? Number one, you can learn something. You can get good at it. You can start being asked for your expertise and teach other people so you can speak about it. You can try and get into publications because of it, because you are doing that learning, doing, measuring with demonstrable success. Then I had a friend who wrote for Forbes, and an agent called her up and was like, hey, do you know someone who's good on camera but also knows business? And she's like, do I? Let me introduce you to my friend. And that's how the mailchimp show actually came to be. That is serendipitous. Right? But because I had the stages, because I had the influence, because I had that expertise that had built up, you're like, that was a long way to get to that answer. Because I had that background, then that opportunity presented itself.

Holly Smithson

Yeah, no, but it's. Right. It's a. I mean, it's a journey. Right? And all these different journey steps are beautiful. I wouldn't imagine that without walking through that step by step. And one of the words that you use, serendipity, is, means a lot to me. And I say, ever since I stepped foot in California, that Serendipity has been very kind to me. She has been very, very kind to me. You know, just, just being at the right place at the right time and the right people seeing in you and seeing in me and seeing opportunities and them just serendipitously presenting themselves. And so I, and I actually have a book, Serendipity now, and I learned about that when I had a health issue and I was just like, I want Serendipity to be with me in this dance and do not leave me. And so the fact that you would describe, oh, so how did I get on the COVID of Forest magazine? Oh, so how did I get to be a business reality talk show hosted into it? It's like, oh yeah, things were serendipitous and it lit literally is this notion that I'm going to continue to walk through doors that are opening other doors that are open.

I'm going to walk them any. Going to continue to invite and organize opportunities and energy in a way that allows you to blossom and contribute and add value and enjoy your, your passion. So how can we put that, how can we put that serendipity, that big magnum bottle of serendipity in the hands of everybody that's watching this Women's History Month podcast? How can we do that?

Misti Cain

When I talk to people who are a little reticent, a little shy, a little nervous, a little imposter syndrome, because I think a lot of us have it and sometimes those of us that don't should.

Holly Smithson

But amen.

Misti Cain

I'm like, there's the Dunning Kruger effect and then there's the imposter syndrome. And I know that there's a happy middle, but let's say you have imposter syndrome and you break it down, One thing that I like to remember is there is someone else who has either the same amount of intelligence I have that has done it and has been successful at it, which means it's figureoutable, you can figure it out if you do certain things. So that's one just realizing, is there anyone else that's done this before that is at the same intelligence level or lower than me? And the answer to that, unless you're trying to do something that's never been done before, is most assuredly yes. And then you have to ask yourself, what is it that I am truly afraid of? Am I afraid of looking silly or embarrassing or what they. Because they, they are so famous in our lives, what they might say and what will they like really using that Tim Ferriss, that, that failure Matrix and walking it all the way out. What would happen if I did this? And then what could I do to prevent it?

And what would happen if it happened anyway? Usually that takes that. That fear, like from a subconscious just hamster on a wheel level to reality of like, that's actually not that bad. Okay? So we take that fear and we say, what if I do it anyway and it works? What does that look like? So then you model that out of, like, what does it actually look like if I take the first step? And a lot of times people are like, I don't know what that first step is. That's where we go back to. Can you be a person who is proactive and curious? Can you ask? We have so many tools at our disposal. We have AI tools. We have still have Google search, even though that feels super antiquated right now, tons of books where we can at least take the first step. A lot of times people are like, I need a mentor. I need one person who will be there to hold my hand. And sometimes, sometimes you absolutely do. But sometimes that's very hard. Especially when that one person that you want to talk to has 50 other people every single week asking them for the same 15 minutes of their time.

It's very difficult. But did that person write a book? Does that person have a blog? Does that person post? Can you learn from them asynchronously now and then try and then see what happened? Is there a program, is there a resource that you can do asynchronously first? And sometimes it's just scary if you do. I want to mentor. I need somebody. Look for that 10% person. Where's the first step that I need to get to? Sometimes what I tell my founders is if you are trying to go from A to Z, you have a vision. Definitely paint a vision. Because if I said, hey, let's get in a car, your first question is going to be like, where are we going? Right? So paint that vision of where you're going, but consider each decision a milestone along that way. So if I'm here and I want to become, I want to start a venture capital fund, right? I don't know anything about starting a venture capital fund. What is my A to B? Not my A to starting a venture capital fund? What is the first question that I have? I don't know. How are venture capital funds created?

Awesome. Let's just look up how are venture capital funds created? What does that mean? Any term that you do not understand, look up that term. Are there any resources? Are there Any credentials? Are there any conferences, is there anything I can go to to learn more about just that first step from A to B, and then you learn a little bit there and you're like, can I do that first thing? Can I ask someone who's been there or just as an emerging manager that just started their own fund, can I do an informational interview about it? So starting in little chunks and sometimes it's just really hard because we're not very patient, right? We're like, I want it now. I want to. I want to start my fun now. I want to do the thing now. I need to get to Z now. And it's like, get B first. Just get to be first. And again, I have to tell myself the same thing quite a lot. So I'm not coming here from a high horse. I'm definitely down in the trenches.

Holly Smithson

That's beautiful. And, you know, one of the things you said that I want to, I want to kind of pull out the thread about you may be afraid. You know, a lot of people won't be. They won't show up. They won't be proactive. Like, there's, there's the fear factor and something that I have definitely experienced in my life. That. And I, I've heard, but sometimes we hear some really sage nuggets, but we're not ready to integrate them into our lives. We're just not ready. Yeah, just not ready to take that piece of valuable wisdom into our own lives. We're just not ready. But when I heard this statement, it said, it says light. We don't, we don't get less afraid about all these great things that you're talking about doing. We don't. The fear doesn't go away. We just, we just get more brave to do them in concert with fear. And for people like, oh, when I get in a director, then I can do what Misty's telling me to do because I'm going to have a title. Oh, well, when I get over into that company, which is publicly traded, and then I'm going to have less fear.

And, and, and for those of you that may not be at a place where you can receive this nugget, I am telling you, I still have fear. When I went on the TEDx stage, I'm like, oh, my gosh, am I going to be able to commit this to memory? Oh, my gosh. I have, you know, cancer. I have whatever, all these limiting stories. Oh, this, that. And it's like, you know what? I'm, I'm afraid that I'm not going to memorize every single word that's been approved by the lawyers@ted.com but I'm gonna do it anyway. And as we get older, hopefully you don't have to wait, you know, middle age to recognize that fear and bravery, they coexist. We play with them, we dance with them together. So as you're sharing, you know, the great wisdom that worked for you, I hope people will take that into consideration, will take that to heart that fear doesn't go away. It plays a beautiful, beautiful role to make sure we don't get run over by a car when we step out into the freeway or, you know, when we're trying to cut up our salad and, you know, cut the knife through our finger.

Like, we all need to be afraid of things that cause us, you know, heightened awareness about what we're doing or about to do. But as we get more mature and we bring greater awareness and greater intention to that which we want, right? We just, we just do it anyway. We just get more brave. It just, it gets more inviting and less intimidating.

Misti Cain

Do you know what reduces fear? What two things that reduce fear.

Holly Smithson

Tell me. Number one.

Misti Cain

Repetition. So doing over and over. I remember the very first time that I drove a car. Oh, it was. I was sweating. It's like you were seatbelt. And then the this and the, oh, wait, okay, 10 and two and just making sure that everything. Now I'm halfway down the street and I'm like, wait a minute, I think I did right because I do it all the time. So then it gets to be status quo.

Holly Smithson

Good point.

Misti Cain

And the second thing are wins. So if you are able to tell yourself you did it before and here was a positive outcome from it, your body physiologically responds in a way that says, look, you're safe because you did that before and you're okay. But the. If you keep telling yourself, I can't, I won't. I'm going to put it off. It actually builds more fear because what you're telling yourself is, you can't. It's scary. Don't do it. This is unsafe. But if you do it and then you have a win, then your body's like, oh, a tiger didn't jump out and eat me. I didn't die. That was amazing. Okay, my head's still attached.

Holly Smithson

I love that. So repetition, repetition, and getting some wins. I love it. I. I will tell you, I can't think of, of a more beautiful set of advice on this Women's History Month. I don't want to be tone Death, Tone deaf. I don't want to be. I don't want to be oblivious to what's happening, to the dismantling of women's rights in this current. Current politically charged environment. So I would love to wrap up our podcast and do so with some adv on how we can continue to navigate these very interesting times, realizing that, as I tell my team at Athena, we survived the pandemic. We shall survive this. This war, this global war, too. We are resilient, and we are abundant, and we have this community. So as much as the temptation is to look at the sky is falling, the sky is finally. Because it feels like that to a lot of people. A lot of people feel that way and. And myself included in moments. So I would love your advice and your counsel to our audience as we try to support each other and bond together in times that are not really in our favor.

Misti Cain

I think it is a very poignant question that you're asking, and here is what I challenge not only myself, but also people in my circle to do. And it is. It. It takes its foundation from the bad or Meinhof syndrome. Have you ever purchased a car and then you start seeing that car everywhere?

Holly Smithson

Yes, the white Tesla.

Misti Cain

Oh, my God, it's everywhere. Right? And the reason why is because you now own that car. So now you're spotting it, and you're seeing it because it's something that you have brought into your environment and you're focused on. The same thing happens with either negative or positive things in your life. Whatever you focus on is where you will find you are drawn to it, is what you are going to absorb and adopt in your life. Does that mean, oh, just turn a blind eye to anything that I don't want to see? No, no, no. You can be aware but not focused on something. You can notice something is happening, and then your focus shifts to, what do I want to do about that? That if there's nothing you can do, then it should take up less of your focus. If there is something that you can do, then let that be your focus. The thing that you can do should be the focus versus the problem that is causing you to be unfocused. Regardless of what that is. I've had women tell me, how do you overcome being talked over in a room full of men?

What I see is I walk into a room as a black female, the only one in the room. I'm like, oh, y'all are gonna remember me. The girl with the red hair and the curl. Oh. Of the freckle girl. That yes. Look at me. I am the thing that stands out in this room. That's amazing. I am in this room because they value what I have to. That's my focus. My focus isn't. I can't believe that I'm the. Oh, no, what happened now? If my focus is, oh, I want to see more diversity of thought in this room, I want to see more diverse perspectives in this room, then my focus will be how do I make that happen? Who else can I then invite into the room? And if my focus is providing value while I'm in the room, then my focus is, look at me in this room, providing value. Awesome. My focus is not on the lack or how come people didn't or that's just the world. That's always going to be the world it's been since the beginning of time. Focus on either what you can change or the greatness that is around you for the moment that you are in.

That would be my advice.

Holly Smithson

Yeah. That's so beautiful. And what that. What that signals to other people is you're giving them permission to respect you in the same way that you respect yourself. And. And that's pretty. That's pretty badass. Thank you.

Misti Cain

Absolutely.

Holly Smithson

All right, well, that wraps up this very juicy edition of our Lifting While Climbing podcast. Misty Kane, thank you so much for coming in. And I think there's a lot. There's a lot juice. There's a lot of juice and what you shared with us today. So thank you so much and thank you, everyone, for joining us on this Women's History Month. Never a dull moment. Never a dull moment. And that's our focus. We want to continue the excitement, the abundance, the community, and certainly the intention and the vision to continue to contribute to society in ways that only we can. So thank you, Misty, and thanks, everyone.

Misti Cain

Thank you for having me. Appreciate you.

Holly Smithson

Thank you. And we'll see. See you next month on our Lifting Wall Climbing podcast. Thank.